Curse

Kymber · Jun 03, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricia

8 skill slots is a little too little for PVE especially in missions where you have to carry an extra rez signet/skill + capture signet in later missions for those elite skills which boils down to just 6 skill slots. And if you're a ranger with a pet (which I have), it sucks even more, and you're only left with 4 skill slots after having Charm Animal and Comfort. 8 slots are still fine with me though. But if there can be more, it would be so much better.

Personally, it sounds to me like you're just trying to do a little too much at once. If the game isn't enjoyable the way you play it, perhaps you should try to think of new ways to accomplish the same things. Particularly, you mentioned above that you find that fully half of your skill slots are gone before you even get around to equipping combat skills. My suggestion to you is, don't equip all the non-combat ones.

I found that I have a much better time playing missions and quests through on their own merits, rather than trying to bring a Signet of Capture with me everywhere I went. I found where bosses were that I wanted to capture things from, and then I went back later with other parties to help them, or with henchies, with the specific purpose of capturing that skill. I found that it was more fun because I was hanging out with more people, or just alone getting my own kills and taking my time.

I have a L20 Ranger as well, and I love my pet, but I don't take Comfort with me. Like me, you have several options:

1) Play a R/Mo and bring Heal Party and/or Heal Other. Not only will this heal your pet, it'll heal your teammates as well, and any carrying a Monk subclass is generally happily accepted in other player groups.

2) Drop Comfort altogether. If your pet dies, she/he dies. Many don't consider this an option, of course.

3) Drop the Resurrection Signet. Bring a Monk henchmen, or let others deal with it. Despite what you may hear not everyone needs to bring a Res Sig with them. If you find you can be more effective without it, that's probably best.

There are other options as well, but there's a few to consider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricia

I had tried creating groups myself (most of the time I'm doing missions either in the Volcano Island or Southern Shiverpeak just to capture skills). Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And as you know when you're getting more people in your group, one person in your group just leaves your party out of the blue does result in the rest of your party leaving you as well. This had happened to me quite a number of times. At times I see people spamming msgs saying that they are creating a group for mission and I would reply saying I would love to join. In return they would ask what class am I and I would reply saying I'm a Necro. Sure enough, no replies back from them which I thought was pretty rude. I guess they rather have a 2nd monk/warrior than a necro in a party.

I have 3 characters, N/R, R/Monk and E/Monk, one completed all missions and the other two that had made it furthest to Ember light Camp and I do not want to create another Monk character just so I can get easily get accepted/invited into missions groups. I do not want to go through all the tedious missions all over again. And I have to say its boring to repeat those missions especially if someone in the group decided to be an idiot and screw up the mission thus resulting in restarting all over again. I had a couple of times when I spent 30+ minutes in a mission and getting DC at the near end of it. Guess what. Restart again. It's a bore and it's frustrating. I grin and bear through every mission with all my characters until recently I started playing Temple of Ages with my necro which made me really mad. Lots of time spent waiting/getting a party, 1k money sink and always failure within 5-10 minutes (35 minutes was the longest I had stayed in it) in UW with people who simply don't listen to simple commands. Kinda had enough of it. Only thing that is making me stay in the game are the grahpics and the pets.

I can sit my ranger down and stare at her pet all day. I really like animals.

So far the only map I really ENJOY playing alot is Presear Ascalon, where every single creature you see does not attack you. I actually enjoy walking around admiring the sceneries. It was really fun and relaxing. But at the later areas in the game, I simply can't do that unless I kill every single creature and by the time I had done that, I simply lost interest. I also wish Anet would change it so that not every single creature you see attacks you. Only certain areas where you can really just run around and enjoy the scenery beside towns and outpost. For example, like presear Ascalon.

I agree. They should really fix the party-forming system. It's a real turnoff for me. A few times I met some monks who were simply arrogant and rude and demanded that I pay them or at least give them any purple/yellow items that drop for me during the mission. There's this monk who was in my group in UW the other day. He said, "I am healing you guys for free, you should pay for my service. What do you expect?!" Nobody replied him and sure enough, he left the game and it does affect the group alot in UW with one less monk for healing. One warrior saw that the monk left and though 'we're screwed' and left too. And as you know 6 can't survive in UW and it was money and Time wasted again.

And just to make it clear again, I'm not interested in getting elite/uber items/weapons/skills whatever. I only wish its easier for us to get to places without having to spend so much time doing a certain mission just to get through. I love the sceneries and graphics of this game but I do not want to spend hundreds/thousands of hours to unlock certain areas of it just to See it.
Well enough venting from me today.

Tricia

P.S: To Mountain Man, you didn't have to say to me to stop playing which I personally think its rude. Like I said in my post, its only my thoughts and my opinions. And yea I know its your opinion too but I don't need that.

I agree, there are certainly a lot of jerks in the game. All I can say is that I hope you stick with it and find a system that works for you. If I see you around in game, I'll be certain to send you an invite

- Kymber

Kishin · Jun 03, 2005, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

Yes your right, farming for runes is a boring grind. Thats why im glad a.net fixed the drakes and have random rune spawns now. Stops farmers like yourself flooding markets, becoming overpowered thanks to your superior runes of every god damn skill harvested 10 in a day.
Now its harder to grind them, though there are still hotspots.

Now id like you to consider the game you have purchased. Wizards and warriors and demons and magic and swords and dragons and monks and other crap.
Thats right, not counterstrike.
I dont care if you despise the lavish background that goes along with your characters in battle. Its there, face it.

I bought Guild Wars expecting some kind of complex mmorpg. Had I thought it was Quake 3 with wizards I wouldnt be here now.

Guess who's happy with the game?

Go back to counterstrike, and keep your muttering low so as not to disturb anyone on your way out. Thank you.

People dream of the day they harvest 10 superior runes in that one day. The complaint is the fact that the availability of items impacts what is supposed to be contests of skill, which goes against what a lot of PvP players were led to believe would be the deciding factor in all competitions. (And if you want to argue that you don't need these items or that they don't have a significant effect, take a look at the damage a Spike Air Elem does with 13 Air Magic, which is the max he can obtain with headgear and skill points, and 16 Air Magic, from a Superior Air Rune).

Also, who said Sword and Sorcery automatically bars games from having the sort of competitive PvP aesthetics Counterstrike has. There's a whole world of fantasy/medieval Half Life mods out there, and we can even go as far back in PC Gaming history to Heretic if you want.

Though the PvP was not the deciding factor in my purchasing Guild Wars (I picked it up with a group of friends that I enjoy gaming with, with the intent of playing through the Co-op missions together, although I've come to enjoy the PvP content since), if you bought the game expecting a 'complex mmorpg', you went looking for the wrong game. A lot of the complex aspects of MMOs are dumbed down in Guild Wars to facilitate more straightforward play (Like crafting, thank god). If anything, Guild Wars is more the love child of Diablo and Morrowind in play style, but that's neither here nor there.

Remember, the game is titled 'Guild Wars', after its primary feature. A primary feature that figures nowhere into the PvE campaign (Except for a few cursory mentions as unexplained background info) and its storyline.

-Eirion

Citizen_Nokarot · Jun 03, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricia

Been playing GW for a few weeks now. Well I love the game and the gorgeous grahpics in it simply blew me away. One thing that bothers me A Lot about GW is that it is really hard to party up with people in certain mission/quest which require real players instead of henchies unless you're in a guild (I'm not in one), a warrior or a monk. When I'm at the Temple Of Ages with my nec/ranger (Trying to get into UW to get the widow spider for a pet or else I wouldn't even bother), nobody would want to party me to the Underworld. And when I actually Spent time just Waiting for a group to party me, I get kicked out almost immediately just because I wasn't a healer, AOE caster or a tank. But when I use my ele/monk, I get invited once in a while just to have some people who simply wouldn't listen, screw up in the mid of the mission for the whole group in UW by taking all the quests at one go at the Reaper when some of us repeatly told them not to. It is vey very tiring. I feel that this game is extremely time-consuming when they clearly said its not about time spent on it or about grinding through levels. The ONLY reason I bought this game is because it allows us to have 'pets' (I love pets) and it sucks that I need to spend so much time doing missions/quests just to get to another area for a different pet, not to mention the difficulty of getting accepted in a party just because you're a necro or ranger and not a monk. 90% of the time, I solo quests with henchies and when it comes to certain mission, it was always a headache. Just my vent (So don't flame me) I'm tired of sitting in Temple of Ages for AGES just to get into a party. Or when I do create a party with my necro telling everybody I would pay for all for the entrance fee to UW, someone would screw up in UW by aggroing things or talking/taking all the quests at one go. I'm not that rich to keep paying 1k just to have someone ruined it within 5-10 minutes. I wanna have fun in the game! Not frustrations! Honestly if it wasn't for the spider pet that is avaliable only in UW, I wouldn't even bother stepping into that area. I bought this game to have fun, why should I work my ass off just to get a pet. I'm not asking for elite skills/weapons in it though. This game is starting to feel more like work than play to me. It would be nice if Arenanet could change/make pet spiders avaliable in other different areas too like those wolves/bears/stalkers/lizards etc which are spread thoughout the maps. And I still wanna repeat this, I hate the party/grouping in GW. It sucks that people only invites monks and warriors most of the time while rangers and necros are left out. My friend who could only play after work told me how time consuming those missions are in old ascalon. If only he knew those missions are peanuts and less time consuming compare to the deserts/southern shiverpeak missions. After 4 weeks of playing, he only just arrived in Yak Bend and is tired of the game already. Many of you might disagree/agree on my opinions about it but I'm sure some of us in here don't have the time to sit and wait for party/play/unlock certain things in GW 24/7.

Just my thoughts
Tricia

I really don't get it.. You don't have time to 'party/play/unlock' things, yet you expect to get them..? And you don't belong to a guild, yet you expect to get a good group for such organized things as the underworld?

I also think you're underestimateing henchmen. Yeah, ok, I've never been to the underworld. However, I'm on the "Ring of Fire" mission right now, and not once have I used players to 'complete' a mission (Did Iron Mines with 1 other player and 6 henchies, but only because we were near markis after our last infuse run). People call me lucky, however..

Tricia · Jun 03, 2005, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Thanks for the suggestions/replies from some of the nice people in here. And for the rest with your sarcastic comments/remarks, I'm tired of it. Please read all my posts in this thread properly before you start accusing me of wanting to unlock stuff in here. And if you just don't like what I wrote in here. Then please stay away and don't bother to read it, much less answer it.

To Citizen, You already said you never been to the Underworld. You can't bring henchies into it. Even if you party them and enter mission, they won't appear in UW for your info. You don't know the frustration of getting a group in Temple Of Ages. So don't assume.

Do I have to be in a Guild to play this game? If so, thats pretty ridiculous.

To Kymber, you got a few good points there. But rez skill is very important in a mission. If everybody died in it except you, you are expected to rez everybody. I'm sure you know what I mean. Thanks for your suggestions though.

I had drop the rez skill when I go exploring with henchies. Its a little bit easier with an extra skill slot now.

To SpeedMann, yeap you are right. I'm pretty surprise to see the sarcasm I got in here with just one post.

Anyhow like I said, if you don't like my post, don't bother reading or ever reply it. Totally sick of it. Case close.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 03, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Your problem is not so much the game, but the complete idiots playing it. I think they should make pre-searing Ascalon extremely difficult to keep idiots out of the later portion of the game. Perhaps but an IQ test at the end. "Hmm... Well... Your academy final exams say that you're IQ is 70. You are legally a moron. We cannot allow anyone of IQ < 120 to pass."

The Pope · Jun 03, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citizen_Nokarot

I really don't get it.. You don't have time to 'party/play/unlock' things, yet you expect to get them..?

I don't think the game should place any of the content out of reach to its target audience.

Rhombus · Jun 03, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

You sir, are lucky you're not european, cuz then, when u're finally accepted in a party, you cant go to the underworld. we NEVER have the favor of the gods. Ok i saw a burning statue ONCE.

Cerberus Darksmite · Jun 03, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhombus

You sir, are lucky you're not european, cuz then, when u're finally accepted in a party, you cant go to the underworld. we NEVER have the favor of the gods. Ok i saw a burning statue ONCE.

A bit off topic, but it's kind of interesting to see how the different groups take the favor based on time zones. Usually when I get in from work, the Euros will have it. During our night, the Americans usually have it, and on our weekends, if I get up fairly early and play, the Koreans will have it.

evrqst123 · Jun 03, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

whenever I have trouble getting into a group, I just make my own. Then I get to choose who live and who dies.. I mean who stays in the group and who doesn't.

Epinephrine · Jun 03, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

on a different thread awhile ago a hardcore pvp said that several hours a day practice was needed to be in the top rungs of the ladder

to me that amount of time investment sounds exactly what you are argueing against which is a grind requireing massive time spent instead of skill

Grind is different from practice. You learn when you practice, you develop communication, you get better at the things that you are doing. I've never had an issue atendning scrims, doing walkthroughs of maps before a match, practicing taking a machine gunner out of a tricky spot by banking a primed nade off a wall, working on the long throw to get a grenade in a window from across a plaza... that's skill based and involves practice.

Grind is not practice. Grind is doing the same crap again and again to amass the items that are needed to play at an equal level. I don't learn ANYTHING from my nth run vs Ettins, having them cluster around me and die to AoE, then going back and doing it again.

The game was advertised to entice people who wanted competitive play, skill not hours played - that's the truth of any skill based game. Don't expect to be brilliant the second you start a new game, but at the same time the fact that you are starting even with other means that skills aquired from other games port over, and you aren't starting at a disadvantage due to lack of time grinding - perhaps lack of time practicing, but that's different.

I enjoy PvE, it can be fun for the storyline and the cameraderie, trying to get through areas with different builds, but I also got this game for some PvP, and until I spend the time grinding to get the gear I need and running around "unlocking" skills I can't compete, regardless of how skilled I am (and by compete I mean at high levels - I can go in and play arena if I want, but that's not really the same thing.) There is little point in trying to make many builds as I just don't have the skills or gear now to carry it off but that has nothing to do with "skill". Going online and practicing interrupting spells, working on getting the timing down for 1 second and 3/4 second spells is practice, that makes a good player. Not having a superior rune is a handicap that isn't fixed by practicing, it is fixed by grinding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymber

Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is, you're not required to play the PvE portion in this game at all. You can start a L20 PvP character right from the start and jump in on the 'instant action'. Thus, their advertising is completely valid. The game includes everything they say that it does and a lot more. Obviously there are benefits to exploring all aspects of the game and spending time in each, but that doesn't mean it's required.

Hahahah.... you are funny. "Skill, not hours played" is the EXACT opposite of "there are benefits to exploring all aspects of the game and spending time in each". Implying that you can compete without grinding is stupid, and anyone who says that you can take PvP premades and be competitive is deluded - yeah, you can beat other guys armed with them, and you might come up well against the occasional guy with more gear, but you cannot play a decent game.

I mean, if I ran a gladiatorial ring, and explained that anyone could win, it's a skill based game - you'd imagine it being somewhat true, right? There's your enemy, he's in plate and armed with a sword. Here's your rock. Go kill him. Yes, it's skill based - and you might get the occasional idiot with armour who you can beat, but the fact is that two equally skilled people cannot have a fair fight if one has good gear and the other doesn't.

I get the impression that FPS folks like a good competitive and fun fight, while RPGers like to dress up in shiny stuff and beat people who don't have any gear, then pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves on how well their gear works. Anyone who has the idea that you need to "earn" the right to have competitive gear is an elitist who is just scared that they won't be so special without theirs. I would never go into a competition expecting an edge because of my previous victories ("You won the olympic 100 meters? Well, you've earned a 2 second headstart today!"), winning a game of chess doesn't entitle you to a "super-queen" next game, winning a match in DoD doesn't earn you more bullets, grenades or life totals and winning in PvP shouldn't earn you anything either, except consmetic upgrades and the like, and that should be because you have all the skills at your disposal.

Kymber · Jun 03, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Hahahah.... you are funny. "Skill, not hours played" is the EXACT opposite of "there are benefits to exploring all aspects of the game and spending time in each". Implying that you can compete without grinding is stupid, and anyone who says that you can take PvP premades and be competitive is deluded - yeah, you can beat other guys armed with them, and you might come up well against the occasional guy with more gear, but you cannot play a decent game.

I mean, if I ran a gladiatorial ring, and explained that anyone could win, it's a skill based game - you'd imagine it being somewhat true, right? There's your enemy, he's in plate and armed with a sword. Here's your rock. Go kill him. Yes, it's skill based - and you might get the occasional idiot with armour who you can beat, but the fact is that two equally skilled people cannot have a fair fight if one has good gear and the other doesn't.

As 'funny' as you found that, it's still a valid point. I never claimed that the person who uses a L20 PvP character without taking the time to unlock the good gear would be a skillful or well-equiped character, I simply stated that they can, in fact, play without having done so.

Beyond that, it confuses me why people continue to bring up 1 on 1 situations as examples or analogies to explain their position in this game. There are no 1 on 1 competitions in PvP. Everything is grouped based (provided you do it properly, ie, don't join HoH with just yourself). So, to modify your example with a more accurate description, there's your enemy, he's in plate and armed with a sword. Here's you rock, and here's 3 other guys with rocks. Go kill him.

If you think that the guy with the sword and armor will win simply because he has a sword and armor, you're off the deep end. The person or people who employ tactics, strategies and skill will win, regardless of their gear. That could be the guy with the sword, or it could be the enemies with rocks.

Of course, the most accurate example is here's a bunch of guys with swords and armor and here's a bunch of guys with rocks. Do the guys with the swords and armor have an advantage? Of course. Does that guarantee victory? Most certainly not. The concept of guerilla tactics, for instance, is taking the enemy's strengths and making them his weaknesses. This is not so simply done in a world where a lot of logistics like weight are missing, but there are still things that can be done to offset the advantage. Force your enemies to fight single battles where they must overcome higher numbers. Find higher ground. Use feints and splitting tactics. All of these things will help remove that advantage and even the playing field.

Basically, at the end of the day, the team with better communications and tactical sense will win.

- Kymber

Epinephrine · Jun 03, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymber

Basically, at the end of the day, the team with better communications and tactical sense will win.

- Kymber

No, at high levels of any competition the teams are on a par that way. In DoD you can bet that my opponents have been practicing the maps, tactics and teamwork, and are all communcating on TS or Vent as well as the ingame systems. Slight imbalances like a better ping can translate into enough of an edge to win a match. If the opposing sniper has a tenth of a second edge on me I am probably in deep trouble - and I am not even a top ranked player.

http://www.csports.net/ClanStats.asp...&Prefix= True

See, I'm only ranked 708th according to csports. That's top 0.2%, but I think their rankings are inflated a lot by pub play, because I am not THAT good a player. Still, 708th out of hundreds of thousands is not too shabby.

Olympic events are won by 100ths of a second. High level play ensures ~evenly matched opponents - given this, the deciding factor IS gear. Thus, to play at high level requires grind. To beat a team of equal skill requires you to be at a reasonably similar level of grind, and since there is a cap to how much grind can be done you must, in order to guarantee competitiveness, grind to that max. I know about competition, and I intend to be competitive in this game as well, but I don't want to have to do mindless farming to get the gear required for top level play.